From: NICK BOWDON [nickbowdon_at_btinternet_dot_com]
Sent: 29 December 2008 11:41
Subject: RE: The Licensing Act 2003 is destroying live music in Kent and East Sussex.
Hi Beau,

I did go to the (...) a few times under the previous management (landlord ....?), and may try it again..
Yet another pub wanting an open stage (I have heard rumours that the Kings Head is Hythe is planning one as well).  They all think it is an easy way to get customers in, but 'taint necessarily so. They need someone good to run it, who will want paying (or should want paying), and there is no guarantee that many/any people will turn up. There have been lots of attempts around Folkestone in recent years, and nearly all have soon faded away. The only really sucessful one is Jack Pound's at the Butt of Sherry.

Happy New Year

Nick

--- On Sun, 28/12/08, Dr. Beau Webber <J_dot_B_dot_W_dot_Webber_at_kent_dot_ac_dot_uk> wrote:
From: Dr. Beau Webber <J_dot_B_dot_W_dot_Webber_at_kent_dot_ac_dot_uk>
Subject: RE: The Licensing Act 2003 is destroying live music in Kent and East Sussex.
Date: Sunday, 28 December, 2008, 11:42 PM

Hi Nick,
The best-fit straight line to the decline intersects the flat line in the first few months of 2006,
and given that it took most of the pubs I am familiar with some months to react to the new licensing,
I do not think I am wrong in pointing a finger.
 
But yes indeed it is related to the decline in pubs - I suspect a plot of this would be very similar. Trickier to produce, though.
I agree people are not going to pubs as much, but in my case that is because pubs that used to have
good music now do not. As you say landlords last no time, and the music-friendly ones get chucked out by the breweries.
 
I also do not charge a fee on KentFolk, but I do not just put cover bands on unless I have checked them out them myself, and the groups
I do put on KentFolk are now getting so few gigs they often do not bother to tell me when they do get a few.
Folk Clubs seem to be the main music these days, and even the major SE venue the Lewes Arms Folk Club is having to move pub.
 
No Chris Ashman is also looking for other causes, and you may both be right, but when I get data I try and find
the most significant cause, and when I get two straight lines intersecting near what was intended to be the most significant
change to the pub trade in decades, I believe this is significant. Why and how it is causing pubs to close and music to stop,
I do not know. Perhaps the timing is chance, but I do not believe that, just not properly understood causality.
Perhaps it was a side effect the legislation had on the selling of cheap beer in the supermarkets.
But I believe, if we do not track the reason down and git it fixed, that graph sugests we have only a year
before there will be little purpose in having a web page for folk music in Kent.
 
Oh too far for you, I know, but the (...) is looking for someone to set up an open stage on Sunday (not last),
see the KentFolk News.
 
Your thoughts and comment appreciated. I will be getting up someone's nose with that graph,
and I need to know the questions I need to have an answer to.
cheers,
    Beau
 
 


From: NICK BOWDON [mailto:nickbowdon_at_btinternet_dot_com]
Sent: 28 December 2008 22:44
Subject: Re: The Licensing Act 2003 is destroying live music in Kent and East Sussex.

Hi Beau,

It appears to me that your graph does NOT prove that the licensing act is the reason live music has declined. The decline seems to start towards  the end of 2006, a year after the Act was introduced. I suspect that the reason for this is the general decline in pubs (30+ a week closing according to the media). I would be suspicious of the Kent Gig Guide figures. They list very few gigs at present, probably because they charge a fee (unlike Mr Gig).

From my own experience (for what it is worth!), there seem to be as many pubs having live music as ever, BUT they keep changing hands so the music keeps stopping for a while. The problem is that people don't go to pubs like they used to, and therefore it is difficult to make live music pay.

Regards

Nick

--- On Sun, 28/12/08, Dr. Beau Webber <J_dot_B_dot_W_dot_Webber_at_kent_dot_ac_dot_uk> wrote:
From: Dr. Beau Webber <J_dot_B_dot_W_dot_Webber_at_kent_dot_ac_dot_uk>
Subject: The Licensing Act 2003 is destroying live music in Kent and East Sussex.
Date: Sunday, 28 December, 2008, 1:24 PM

Dear Nick,
I finally have hard numbers re the loss of live-music, and the evidence is that the Licensing Act 2003 is responsible.
If this email reaches you mangled, there is a version on the web at :
Hope you are having a good Christmas,
cheers,
     Beau
 

We are losing music pubs and music-friendly Landlords at a frightening rate
- and the evidence is that the Licensing Act 2003 is responsible.

KentFolk Music web page
www.kentfolk.com

I have been saying we are losing music pubs and music-friendly Landlords at a frightening rate for a while, but now I have some hard numbers - and hard numbers they are to swallow - but if all things remain equal (and they never do), we could have no live music in Kent by 2012.

I have been doing the KentFolk web page since the year 2000, and the fall off in gig numbers is very evident from my data - but my research gets in the way some months, and that causes scatter in the numbers, so for good figures I went to Chris Ashman of www.kentgigs.com and asked if I could data-mine his Gig Archives :

"Hi Beau, I would suggest that you should look at our lists also in the light of the number of venues that are prepared to pay to promote their events rather than expecting bands to act like "rent a crowd". ...... We can say without doubt this is the worst period we have seen for Kent bands since we started supplying the media in 1981. "

So I pointed my programs at his gig archive, and this is the graph I get; I plot the number of gigs per week in Kent and East Sussex that are listed on www.kentgigs.com over the years Summer 2004 to Christmas 2008 :

Are Kentish Live Music Gigs Coming to an End ?
Are Kentish and East Sussex Live Music Gigs Coming to an End ?

At first look we have a quite a lot of scatter, then we can see that in fact some of the variation is a regular dip of some 20 or 30 gigs per week over the Christmas weeks, which makes sense.

But the main feature is that a steady live-gig-rate of about 70 per week has been about halved. What has caused this ? - we can line-up events on this time-graph with major events that have recently happened :

  1. The Credit Crunch - starting late Summer 2008 into Autumn - There is a definite dip, but surprisingly the graph seems to have gone up again by Winter and the time of the regular Christmas dip - perhaps people are in need of compensation, and live music is a good option?
  2. The Smoking Ban - came into effect 1st July 2007 - Possibly there is a slight dip, but I do not believe there is any statistically significant change.
  3. The Licensing Act 2003 - came into force on 24 November 2005 - We see that what was a regular and fairly steady live music gig-rate of about 70 per week has turned within a month or two into a steady and apparently uniform slide towards zero.

Now I am not one of those who found no merit in the Licensing Act 2003 - I agree the licencing fee takes most of the possible profit from the gigs I sometimes put on, but I do get a piece of paper that makes the gig legal.
However what is totally unacceptable is that it would seem that for the publicans and musicians the scheme is unworkable, such that if everything is equal - and it won't be - we can expect no live music over the Christmas weeks next year (2009) - down from a recent 40 to 50 gigs per week over the Christmas period - and before the end of 2011 live music gigs will be effectively over or too far away to drive to.

There is an urgent need to get this data to those who can make a difference, and also your real stories about publicans who are being thrown out and musicians who are losing their trade - this data is unequivocal :

    - The Licensing Act 2003 is destroying live music in one of the most musically active counties in the UK.